The AMP contract
Russ,
I know you were told Galion can sell the excess power if the city does not need it.
Lets take a look at the AMP contract. This is from Yellow Springs, Ohio. Yellow Springs is one of three in Ohio that told AMP to go jump in the Scioto river and stick your contract where the sun doesn't shine. Every contract between each community was the exact same, the only difference was the power purchase requirements and the name of the communities involved.
Go down to page 21, section C and click on that. It in you'll see where AMP is the only one that has authority to sell excess power, not Galion. Any community that does not need the excess power, AMP will make an effort to sell it, but there are no guarantees. Take into account this power will cost 40 - 50% more than they can get any where else.
http://www.ohiocitizen.org/campaigns/coal/Ohio%20Cit%20Action%20feb...
Ask the citzens of Orrville how that worked out ? The got suckered into buying into the soon to be closed Gorsuch coal plant, they never used a single watt from the place, and now have a huge bill from AMP for the EPA fines, clean up and dismantling of that plant. Citizens are furious over there.
http://www.the-daily-record.com/news/article/4842747
Looks like their string of good luck with companies moving in might be over soon.
Demand for electricity was dropping even before the economy went into the tank and it's shrunk even much further since then. Infact it has forced AEP in Ohio to mothball several plants that can be fired back up again should the need arise, but they don't see that happening for a while, if ever.
http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB122722654497346099-lMyQjAxMDI...
Again Galion is reponsible for anywhere between 300 - 400 % more power than the city needs on an everday basis for the next 50 years. Kind of like you going to Granny's Kitchen everday and ordering up a table full of food, then trying to consume as much as you can, and what you can't then hoping some one will buy this and that off your table. You only have 24 hours to consume it or sell it all as more food is coming and you start the entire process all over again
Russ, you'll end up like this character from Monty Python.
WARNING THIS IS DISGUSTING, but funny.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aczPDGC3f8U&feature=related
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by RUSSELL HENKEL on -
WELL............I AM NOT GOING TO SET AROUND AND STEW ABOUT THIS,I WILL BE IN THE SAME BOAT WITH A LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE, WITH KNEE HIGH BOOTS ON AND A SHOVEL ABOUT 3 FOOT WIDE......AND I HOPE SOMEDAY I WILL NOT NEED ELECTRICITY GASOLINE ,NATURAL GAS, FOOD,WATER AND SO ON AND IT IS NOT GOING TO BE CROWDED................. DO YOU GET MY DRIFT.? I AM I GLAD I WAITED A FEW HOURS BEFORE I WATCHED YOU TUBE, I NEEDED THAT, I OWE YOU ONE ANTHONY.......... THANKS .... AS ALWAYS............... GO BUCKEYES..........THINGS ARE LOOKING REAL GOOD WITH WISCONSINs CLOSE CALL AND IOWAs LOSS. LETS PLAY ALABAMA AND GET IT OVER WITH RIGHT NOW.
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Permalink Reply by Anthony on -
I see you're point, but I when I ask a city council person a question I expect the truth...no I demand the truth.
Dealing in falsehoods and fantasy serves no purpose to nobody. This matter will not blindside Galionites like the Bauer fiasco did.
RUSSELL HENKEL said:WELL............I AM NOT GOING TO SET AROUND AND STEW ABOUT THIS,I WILL BE IN THE SAME BOAT WITH A LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE, WITH KNEE HIGH BOOTS ON AND A SHOVEL ABOUT 3 FOOT WIDE......AND I HOPE SOMEDAY I WILL NOT NEED ELECTRICITY GASOLINE ,NATURAL GAS, FOOD,WATER AND SO ON AND IT IS NOT GOING TO BE CROWDED................. DO YOU GET MY DRIFT.? I AM I GLAD I WAITED A FEW HOURS BEFORE I WATCHED YOU TUBE, I NEEDED THAT, I OWE YOU ONE ANTHONY.......... THANKS .... AS ALWAYS............... GO BUCKEYES..........THINGS ARE LOOKING REAL GOOD WITH WISCONSINs CLOSE CALL AND IOWAs LOSS. LETS PLAY ALABAMA AND GET IT OVER WITH RIGHT NOW.
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Permalink Reply by KeithR on -
I tend to agree with Russell. There are only two or three possible scenarios here:
1. You are wrong and the city is not on the hook.
2. The city is on the hook, but just as with the negotiated penalty from the EPA, it and its partners can find a way to move ahead in their mutual best interests.
3. Financial chaos ensues for Galion and dozens of other communities.
What the heck do you want the City of Galion to do? You want them to "come clean," but that might be the absolute worst thing to do if the goal is renegotiation. The only tenable choice is to allow the City to do its best in conjunction with its partners. There is absolutely nothing.......... NOTHING........ to suggest that the City Manager is not doing exactly that. In fact, the signs point to him staying on top of things.
Again, like Russell, there's no reason to sit and stew about this.
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Permalink Reply by Anthony on
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Keith it is one of the three.
However the terms of the contract stipulate any differences negotiated with one community apply to all. This would throw the entire AMP project in peril, and I can assure you those folks sitting in their fancy new headquarters will not allow that to happen, they will never let that happen.
There is nothing wrong with discussing it, other AMP communinities and city council are voicing their concerns in public about it. Danville, VA being the loudest of them all.
http://www.martinsvillebulletin.com/article.cfm?ID=17066
Two year before the Bauer fiasco hit, and you personally knew what he was doing, would you have said anything ?
Galion sits in a unique position, after examining the majority of all the other 81 communities, Galion is the only community that was oversold electric supply needs. The contracts were supposed to be for " BASE " power. The typical amount a community would need on any give day. This is done by calculating the yearly total usage of kilowats and divide by 365. Galion purchased on the contracts for more than 400% above base.
Which city finance director was here, worked for AMP before he came to Galion ?
You think Weiland had any influence over these decisions ?
Funny how Weiland abruptly left when questions started to be asked about this in public.
Keith I'm not asking anyone to stew, the information is here. Russ asked city council a question about the excess capacity and what happens. According to the contracts whomever answered, did not tell him the truth.
I think Galion should SUE AMP on the basis of fraud and misrepresentation period. They know exactly what the cities electric usage was and is, and they deliberately sold the city 400% more than was justified.
If I'm wrong we'll know in two years.
If I'm right and the city leadership in Galion does nothing, this could be the end of a once fine little community that just can not endure anymore.
I hope I'm wrong... but I'm looking where the evidence leads me to without any bias.
KeithR said:I tend to agree with Russell. There are only two or three possible scenarios here:
1. You are wrong and the city is not on the hook.
2. The city is on the hook, but just as with the negotiated penalty from the EPA, it and its partners can find a way to move ahead in their mutual best interests.
3. Financial chaos ensues for Galion and dozens of other communities.
What the heck do you want the City of Galion to do? You want them to "come clean," but that might be the absolute worst thing to do if the goal is renegotiation. The only tenable choice is to allow the City to do its best in conjunction with its partners. There is absolutely nothing.......... NOTHING........ to suggest that the City Manager is not doing exactly that. In fact, the signs point to him staying on top of things.
Again, like Russell, there's no reason to sit and stew about this.
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Permalink Reply by RUSSELL HENKEL on
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ACTUALLY CITY COUNCIL DID NOT ANSWER THE QUESTION THE FELLA THAT RUNS THE ELECT DEPT ANSWERED I THINK JEFF PRICE,I DO NOT KNOW FOR SURE,BUT MR TOY WENT ALONG WITH THE ANSWER.I DO NOT KNOW WHAT TO DO NOW? EXCEPT SET BACK AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS,I CAN NOT SEE GALION GOING DOWN THE TUBES OVER SOMETHING LIKE THIS,WE ARE IN BAD SHAPE NOW.AS IT IS. THERE IS SOMETHING SOMEWHERE THAT TELLS ME THAT IS NOT GOING TO LET THIS HAPPEN,COUNCIL MAY BE LOOKING TO THE FUTURE AND NEEDING MORE ELECTRIC FOR FUTURE BUSINESS WHICH DOES NOT LOOK GOOD NOW BUT MAY IN THE FUTURE, WHO KNOWS. USUALLY RUMORS IN MY LIFE I HAVE FOUND DONT AMOUNT TO A HILL OF BEANS AND THEY NEVER COME OUT LIKE YOU THINK ,I AM NOT GOING TO BLEED TO DEATH[DOCTORS SAY] WHEN I CUT MYSELF BECAUSE I TAKE BLOOD THINNERS JUST BE CAREFUL. AND GET TO THE HOSPITAL IF I DO SOMETHING STUPID. AM GOING TO GO OVER AND TALK TO JEFF AND SEE WHERE THE CONSERVATION GOES. WATCH THE EYES........ ALWAYS WATCH THE EYES AND HEAD MOVEMENT.
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Permalink Reply by Scott Thompson on -
Has anyone gone to the city and asked to view the AMP contract? It is public record isn't it? I think this would take a whole lot of guess work out of the equation.
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Permalink Reply by RUSSELL HENKEL on
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SCOTT: YOU WOULD HAVE TO HAVE 7 PHILEDELPHIA LAWYERS TO TELL YOU WHAT IS SAID THEN I AM NOT SURE THAT WOULD DO IT. IN TODAYS SOCIETY THEY ARE GOING TO DO WHAT THEY WANT THEN SAY SUE ME IF YOU DO NOT LIKE IT AND DRAG IT OUT 10 YEARS IN THE COURT SYSTEM AND THEN LOSE ON TOP OF THAT. THEY KNOW WHO IS #1,THEY ARE.
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Permalink Reply by Anthony on
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Scott the language from Yellow Springs is identical to the one in Galion. The only difference is the city and the amount purchased. That's all. All the contracts have the exact and identical language.
http://www.ohiocitizen.org/campaigns/coal/yseditorial.html
Scott before the economy tanked, Galion had a baseload or average usage of 11.7 megawatts in 2008, since that it has declined considerably.
Galion is currently buying 8.7 megawatts from the soon to be closed Gorsuch power plant
This is what Galion city council has signed up for with AMP in the very near future :
1. Prairie State Coal plant in Illinois 9.952 megawatts for 50 years
2. The new coal fired plant near Marrietta 16 megawatts for 50 years. This plant was cancelled late last year after spending 200 million + on site preparation, which all of the 81 communities are on the hook for. Galions share of this bill, probably close to 4 million or more. However AMP says, we'll build a different plant now, a natural gas plant and you commit again to the deal and we wont bill the community just roll the debt over into the new plant. To my knowledge, city council has not discussed this in public yet, as as new contract and 50 year commitment must be signed again.
The same 16 megawatts ? Something less ?
3. A hydropower ( DAM) project on the Ohio River for 1.8 megawatts for 50 years.
Add all this up if my figures are correct, this equals 27.752 megawats of electricity for 50 years.
Russ said Galion's power needs were around 7 megawats for May according to what he received from the city. Less than what Galion gets from the Gorsuch plant alone.
The only need for this massive ammount of new electricity would be a giant steel or aluminum plant that moved into Galion. I missed that announcement in the Inquirer.
Once these plants are up and running there will be a massive oversupply of electricity in a 5 state region. The AMP plants will generate electricity at a substatianlly higher price than existing facilities, who's going to buy it outside of the communities locked into buying it ?
Infact, since the construction of the new coal plant in Illinois started, more wind energy has been brought online in Illinois and Indiana already that exceeds what the Prairie facility will generate, and more is coming. Then kick in solar power where the price and performance is coming very close to current coal costs.
These are just a few of over a dozen plus projects either already online and operating or will be very soon. This isn't even taking into account Ohio which is behind the time a bit.
http://apolloalliance.org/uncategorized/vision-energys-1-billion-wi...
http://www.wlfi.com/dpp/living_green/tippecanoe-county-welcomes-fir...
http://www.idsnews.com/news/story.aspx?id=75165
Scott Thompson said:Has anyone gone to the city and asked to view the AMP contract? It is public record isn't it? I think this would take a whole lot of guess work out of the equation.
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Permalink Reply by Anthony on
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Weiland was asked for a copies of the AMP contracts before he abruptly left. He refused to supply them.
He was also asked for Galions total investment in all AMP related, again refused.
I guess he thought they were his records and not the communities under the state sunshine laws.
Since then other avenues of the agreements have been obtained through the Ohio Citizens Organization, they have copies for every community and had to sue AMP to get them.
Scott Thompson said:Has anyone gone to the city and asked to view the AMP contract? It is public record isn't it? I think this would take a whole lot of guess work out of the equation.
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Permalink Reply by Anthony on
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If I'm wrong, I'll come to Galion for the Oktoberfest in 2012 and eat crow in the square in front of the entire town.
If Price and Toy are wrong, they both resign from their positions at the same Oktoberfest in front of the entire city.
RUSSELL HENKEL said:ACTUALLY CITY COUNCIL DID NOT ANSWER THE QUESTION THE FELLA THAT RUNS THE ELECT DEPT ANSWERED I THINK JEFF PRICE,I DO NOT KNOW FOR SURE,BUT MR TOY WENT ALONG WITH THE ANSWER.I DO NOT KNOW WHAT TO DO NOW? EXCEPT SET BACK AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS,I CAN NOT SEE GALION GOING DOWN THE TUBES OVER SOMETHING LIKE THIS,WE ARE IN BAD SHAPE NOW.AS IT IS. THERE IS SOMETHING SOMEWHERE THAT TELLS ME THAT IS NOT GOING TO LET THIS HAPPEN,COUNCIL MAY BE LOOKING TO THE FUTURE AND NEEDING MORE ELECTRIC FOR FUTURE BUSINESS WHICH DOES NOT LOOK GOOD NOW BUT MAY IN THE FUTURE, WHO KNOWS. USUALLY RUMORS IN MY LIFE I HAVE FOUND DONT AMOUNT TO A HILL OF BEANS AND THEY NEVER COME OUT LIKE YOU THINK ,I AM NOT GOING TO BLEED TO DEATH[DOCTORS SAY] WHEN I CUT MYSELF BECAUSE I TAKE BLOOD THINNERS JUST BE CAREFUL. AND GET TO THE HOSPITAL IF I DO SOMETHING STUPID. AM GOING TO GO OVER AND TALK TO JEFF AND SEE WHERE THE CONSERVATION GOES. WATCH THE EYES........ ALWAYS WATCH THE EYES AND HEAD MOVEMENT.
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Permalink Reply by Scott Thompson on
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You know the language of the contacts may be the same but isn't this pretty straight forward public information that has to be produced if asked for? It is still just speculation until someone produces hard numbers which would be in the actual contract that Galion is committed too.
You're an hour and fifteen minutes away drive on up ask them to let you see it and do a side by side comparison of Yellow Springs and Galion. Isn’t this the only way to truly bring to light if Galion is on the hook for double, triple or quadruple the amount of electricity that we currently use as you say we are?
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Permalink Reply by Anthony on
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You're 5 minutes away.
You have the Yellow Springs Contract, by law the city of Galion is supposed to supply them. Will they ?
Here's another little caveat, Galion is reponsible for the actions of all the other communities as well. Should any of them default on the contratcs, Galion supply of power increases.
http://www.ohiocitizen.org/campaigns/coal/AMP%20Ohio_ScottBalice_02...
Scott Thompson said:You know the language of the contacts may be the same but isn't this pretty straight forward public information that has to be produced if asked for? It is still just speculation until someone produces hard numbers which would be in the actual contract that Galion is committed too.
You're an hour and fifteen minutes away drive on up ask them to let you see it and do a side by side comparison of Yellow Springs and Galion. Isn’t this the only way to truly bring to light if Galion is on the hook for double, triple or quadruple the amount of electricity that we currently use as you say we are?
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